Dutton Kit Cars and their owners
Hi - I have a Dutton Phaeton with an RS2000 2.0 litre pinto engine in. It has a webber 32/36 carb manual choke in but is running very roughly. The car starts ok and runs ok in lower rev range but as soon as you press the throttle it splutters and bogs. If it is in 4th gear and I rev it goes through the lower range but as the revs build it again splutters. The situation is improved if when this happens I pull the manual choke out then the car takes off like a rocket. I need to set up the timing advance but dont know what to set it too. I have it set to 10 degrees BTDC but no improvement. Also has anyone any suggestions for setting the carb - I have done a fair bit of reading and tried to set up the lean best idle adjustment but the car is still running like a pig. Any suggestions as to where to go with this would be greatly appreciated.
Sounds like its running ok on the pilot jet but bogging on the main jets so I think its a good internal clean and a service kit , static timing is 6 degrees BTDC , Pinto inlet gaskets are prone to leaking . If that does not cure it start looking at the balance weights in the dizzy however puling the choke out suggests its not that . What dizzy is in it Ford or Bosch
Thanks for the reply Daryl. I had seen a video on YouTube showing me how to set the static timing and the guy set it to 10 degrees so I went with that. When I was setting it before it was altered it was set at about 15 degrees - so quite a bit more than the 6 you recommend. I will give that setting a go. I dont think it is a problem with leaking gaskets as it is a brand new carb so no wear and tear. I have a feeling it is the set up of the timing and the screw adjustments on the carb. I will try some more settings and report back. Thanks and any more suggestions are most welcome.
If it is a new carb then maybe it doesn't have the correct jets for the 2litre, maybe it is setup for the 1600 Mexico or something. The timing will have an effect but I don't think that is enough to make the sort of difference that you describe.
I wonder why it has a new carb? I wonder whether it was replaced in the hope of curing this problem?
Is the engine standard ie not a hot cam etc
Check the bottom butterfly spindles for movement, also check to see if its the second choke opening thats giving issues (2800 to 3200 rpm) if the second main jet is wrong / obstructed it will cause a massive imbalance in the air / fuel ratio.
Try with the top off the filter.
If I remember correctly the basic settings for a pinto with a weber TC are as follows.
Wind the mixture screw in fully (without over tightening) then back it out two turns.
Wind the slow running screw off until it breaks contact then wind it back in two turns.
Set the engine to 8 10 or 12 degrees BTDC and pop the dizzy cap off. Put a very thin (ciggy paper is ideal) strip of paper between the points and then turn the dizzy until it lets go of the paper then lock the dizzy. I'd start with 8.
Those settings should give you a basic running engine.
If there is an issue with the main jets it won't rev, just bog and die on acceleration.
There is an accelerator diaphragm which can also perforate or deteriorate with age.
Other issues could be condenser failure (they can go pop from new)
Main jets are accessed via the float chamber which requires you to remove the top of the carb.
Try the basic settings first, post back results and we can dig deeper from there.
Ade I think we are quoting different engine specs here , standard spec I have here is 6 degree's If its been modified its going to creep higher , it might explain why it was set at 15 degree's , I have just re read that listing which states the car was built to competition spec so somewhere there must be a spec for it , without that its any one's guess
Basic settings should get it running (even if it's as rough as a badgers arse) and then work forward to see if the second bore main jet is kicking in. It does sound like a jetting issue or an air leak. Odd to just get the leak higher up the range though. You should be able to see the jet of fuel from the primaries when the throttle is opened and the car is switched off. If that jet of fuel is missing then your air/fuel ratio will go to pot
I agree completely regarding the spec, without some clue as to whats been done it's very difficult to plan a method of attack.
I will try some of the different settings you fantastic kind folks recommend this weekend and report back my findings. It does run ok on the lower rev ranges and bogs out as i throttle it up which as you say seems to point to problems with the jetting. I set the carb up with the filter off and can see a jet of fuel squirt in when i operate the throttle so all seems ok there. As for the description - he put that the car is 'built to competition standard' but I don't think it means anything special about the performance of the engine - he seemed to just be telling me it was a nice new build to a decent standard.
Do you mean as regarding the distributor - set the static timing - start at 8 degrees (i use a strobe for this) then do what with the points and paper? Thanks for your time guys - appreciated.
I don't know the correct terminology, I guess as the engine will be standing still it will be static timing.
You can do the same thing with a light bulb, the fag paper is cheaper and does not involve having a live ign circuit. Set the points gap first then set the timing marks for 8 degrees using the crank shaft bolt and a 19mm spanner. Trap the fag paper in the points and then rotate the dizzy by hand until the paper comes free with gentle pressure. If you lock the dizzy in that position your points will just be opening on 8 degrees advance. If you go too far advanced it will preignite under load which is why I suggested 8 degrees as a starting point.
Re the carb - you should get one jet of fuel down the primary bore (closest to rocker cover) and as you progress the throttle the second butterfly should start to open and a second jet should be visible down the secondary bore. On a standard DGAV it should happen about half way through the throttle's range of movement.
As Daryl has suggested it could also be down to balance weights on the dizzy. I had that happen at J10 on the M25 and had to be towed off the motorway. You are currently using a motorcraft dizzy (large black dizzy cap). It may be worth looking at the shaft bearings and any play in the gearing on the bottom of the shaft. how much does the shaft rotate if you grab the rotor arm and wiggle it? If you do have to replace it switch to a Bosch unit (red brown smaller cap) I've found I have less trouble with those.
So many different possibilities on this, if you are planning on having a go saturday daytime I should be available on the phone or on here.
I'm not a trained mechanic but have had a pinto in one or another of my cars for near on 30 years now, Still have two kits on the road both pinto powered.
EDIT - Just looked at the photos again, you appear to have accuspark leads, do you also have the accuspark ign module inside the dizzy? Also what type of plugs are you running? Steve Kerswell had all sorts of issues with his pinto until he changed the plugs to NGK's.
Balance weights in the dizzy will do Ade , I have a feeling that's why my 2.8i wont go above 4000 rpm,
I lost one of the little round weights and my 'highly tuned' mk5 cortina taxi had to be towed off the M25. losing two from opposite sides would mess with the advance curve a stupid amount and would cause failure or really rough running - worth the half hour taken to remove the cover plate and check.