Dont worry Vern

[rob saul]

Was going to add this to another thread-but that got locked and at the time was in a hurry an couldnt be bothered top start another thread

Anyway I know what you said about the new guidelines but just a few things to bear in mind

1-rules say you cant cut a monocoque chassis rail or bulkhead. Every single day from the escort rally boys fitting 5 link kits to WRC boys doing modified suspension or the race boys cutting the bulkhead to run a rollcage through to tie the cage into the strut tops it happens.

2-Several hundred people have fitted a spyder spaceframe chassis as a replacement for the lotus backbone-TOTALLY diffrent design to the original car,as far as im aware none have ever done IVA and several have been done in the last few years.

It also involves new suspension and most also change to a Zetec

there are also many other "alternative" chassis for other cars out there that people dont seem to have trouble with

3-VOSA have no spec,.chassis drawings,design criterea or anything for a dutton to refer back to so have no way of knowing whats right or wrong or original,

If they wanted to they could take every modified boy racer car with a bodykit off the road as they would fail the sillouette test where they have the spec for every production car-as far as I know they have only ever done this once and that was when it was forced on them and a lot of politics were involved from someone with an axe to grind.

Think you will find the rules will be applied where its being used to see if a radically modified vehicle has been altered enough and has to be tested

As they say " if it looks like a duck,flys like a duck and quack.s like a duck-its a duck so in kitcar terms as long as you look like a dutton they arent going to be too concerned

Anyone know diffrent please let us know-but only actual cases or facts that can be verified not just rumor or hearsay

r

[Adrian Southgate]

Hi Rob

Q139CPF, powder blue melos.

I dealt with Kent Constabulary and the DVLA criminal investigations department when the ID of this 'Robin Hood' was called into question. Cutting a long story short, the chap with the robin hood has advertised it on ebay as a track car as he cannot afford the IVA after having his plates revoked by the DVLA following a vehicle inspection. 

LINK

The melos belongs to one of the contributors on this forum now. He should get the reg back with no issues but I will back his claim if the DVLA object. I have photographic evidence of both vehicles (follow the link) As far as I know kent police are following up with a visit to the chap who bought the ID and Essex police are visiting the chap that sold it as they have both broken the law.

I have 4 other cases pending and another 6 'spots' which have yet to surface. This is the hornets nest I kicked 18 months ago and it is now beginning to catch people out when the sell the cars on and the new owner is called in for an inspection. It was taken out of my hands when someone at the DVLA decided it would make a good project for his last few months before being made redundant when they close the LVLO's. The problems this may cause my fellow dutton owners are regrettable, but pale into insignificance compared to the trouble thats going to land on people who try it on in the future.

[rob saul]

So all the cars are ringers ? not "modified" duttons ? no one with a dutton pretending to be a dutton is going to get any problems

The robin hood/dutton is back on ebay  !

[Adrian Southgate]

All the cars I deal with are duttons that have had the ID removed, not the vehicles they end up on, thats the DVLA's problem.

If there is no dutton then there is nothing I can do.

The stupid things people do on ebay though, advertising a car as a robin hood / dutton ... i ask you, darwin's theory says he needs a visit from plod... 

Modified Duttons are a whole matter of personal taste up to a point. If it doesnt have a dutton body then it isnt a dutton ... 

I don't know of many duttons that remain un altered underneath, surely it was part of the design that they could be versatile in the parts they used leaving a lot of the engineering of the drivetrain to the builder if altered from standard. but if the body is swapped then it looses the dutton part in my opinion. My legerra has been modified but it still looks like a legerra, my phaeton will be modified but using parts from other models of dutton, it will still look like a dutton.

All the cases I am currently working on are duttons that have been bought with no ID even though they have been blatantly registered and used on the road or ones that have half an ID such as the VIN plate but no reg, reg but no VIN one or two with the number stamped on the chassis rails but no VIN or plates.

My spares car, which I believe you used to own Rob, has been through the mill as it has a VIN but no plates. The holes are there and you can still see the marks from the tax disk holder on the screen. The DVLA says that VIN has never been used to register a car so I can only assume it was registered using the original ford VIN from the 1300, judging from the parts used a mark 2 escort. As it has no trace then it's just a pile of spares.

No one with a genuine dutton is going to have a problem with the DVLA as if they have a query on a dutton they call me or Daryl. 

[284wrv9k2wgzk]

That's mine, hooray. Good job I kept that stupid roll bar and the ally dash

[Big Vern]

Yes you're right Rob, I'm probably getting unduely concerned. It certainly looks like a dutton:-)

We used to SVA the group N's and the WRC's ( well had to as they were mainly steel tubes, rolls of carbon fibre and tubs of epoxy!)

VOSA has issued a general spec as what constitutes inappropriate modification - when the IVA was at the consultation stage both the police and VOSA pushed vigogously for ANY post reg modification to result in strpping of Identity thus forcing an IVA. As far as VOSA are concerned cutting of the chassis or monocoque IS radically modifying.

Don't know how the historic racing and rally boys get round it after all how do they reshell when there are no new shells? they should all be running Q plates - so there are loopholes somewhere in the system. wonder if the MSA logbook has anything to do with it?

 

[1midz0wwbl268]

As someone who along with Marc is caught up in all of this,  it is reassuring,  to note that as long as it looks like a dutton ,as i,m sure both mine and Marc's car are, then there should be no problems, I'm glad that Marcs has now been  sorted, and i'm keeping my fingers crossed for mine , My situation is the same as Ade's. no Reg found  yet,  , but clear signs that it has been on the road  at some stage of it's life  

But for me and i guess others who might be rebuilding their cars,  do we build them to meet the IVA spec or just put them back as they are because in my book there is a lot to be said for improving things steering and brakes where the old way it was done might not be as good as nowadays, i'm not talking fitting IBS but in the way things are supported and safety things like colapsible  steering  columns  ,after all your the one who's life they are going to save    I started off building mine with IVA in mind, but now Will i be causing myself extra expense having got another steering column and lower link , instead of putting the old escort one back on?  and even though i have got to repair my bottom edges  because of cracking in the gell coat  by re doing them with return edges ?  its certainly got me thinking , the expense actually isn't that great, an extra £30 for the column , about the same for the fibreglass materials   its the time it takes to do the work ,  but i'm at the stage still where its easier to do it now, than once assembled   

[Big Vern]

The little things never seem to cost much on their own but once you start to add them up:-o

Cost of a respray and the IVA and before you know it the cars cost more than its worth.

It helps if you have access to good facilities, milling turning welding etc and the skills but for many that's not an option. Getting others to modify or make soon pushes the cost up. If I'd had to get these things done for my car then it'd probably have been cheaper to buy a Caterhan straight from the Factory!

If it goes on the road with just the MOT and no hassles from the men in suits then great - if it needs an IVA then it gets broken for spares - simples.

[1midz0wwbl268]

And the problem with that Vern is the marque  gets less and less , with fewer cars on the road,  and what does that do to the value of any remaining cars   , It shows that everyone buys a kit car for  different reasons, I purchased mine because i love the simple mechanical layout , unlike modern cars and plus they are different, and enjoyable  I must admit i wont add up the true cost  because  if i did i would have just purchased another tin top clone    ,And for me one other reason was  i happen to like the look of the melos,   

I know i would never get back what i have or might have to spend to get this car on the road,  but whats the worth to me, its not measured in financial terms, My Charger only sold for £350 when it was worth a lot more ,I must have spent a good £1000 on it 

 i have to question anyone who says that they would rather brake a car they spent years restoring  rather than say, ok,  what do i have to do, its probally because i only have one car, not a garage full  that i take the  view i do , plus its helped that i started this with the view from day one that i would make it as complient as i can  from build up to completion , that way decreasing the possible re work , It helps that i do have extensive back up  from work  and have access to welding, turning  etc  but actually very little has needed re working so far ,but saying that ive still got the steering to re work when new mounting brackets etc will have to be made and welded in