Brexit no need to bother

[Steve Kerswell]

Well it seems after last night display both on and off the field, we don't need to consider the referendum. Most of Europe will now want us out ! Send them all home, and let's deal with it. I thought the meaning of sport was to help one another's culture etc . Tear gas should be dyed and anyone found dyed should be punished. Proud to be British, no, not at this moment. FFS.

[Adrian Southgate]

How do us mere mortals expect to understand this 'big picture' that everyone raves on about? Very few people know the full facts, even fewer understand them. I certainly don't.

I have limited understanding of the information available, most of which has been supplied by people who don't always tell the truth and they will ultimately supply information that is biased to getting the result they desire.

So how do I make a decision? I have to make my decision based on how this will affect my personal circumstances both now and in the future. There is no other way for me to look at it. I have to be completely selfish. 

[Steve Kerswell]

Having worked in Europe over the years, I was there when the wall fell ! I've always been pro European, so I need to be persuaded that it's wrong.

[James Doulton]

We currently have a car industry but it is all foreign owned. It is here because we have a very flexible labour market and weak unions. But it will only remain if we stay in the single market because it is here to supply Europe.

To stay in the single market we would have to negotiate a deal, which Norway and Switzerland have done. I see no reason why our deal would be any different. The deal that they have is better than being OUT of the single market but a lot worse than we currently have - they contribute to the EU but get nothing back, they have to comply with the rules but have no say in them, and they have to allow free movement and immigration of EU citizens.

If we chose to leave the single market and negotiate a trade deal like Canada has, then how long will that take and what deal would we get? If it takes more than 2 years then our car industry (and many others) will have relocated to mainland Europe where plenty of countries would welcome them. The short term prospects are bad.

The only basis that I can see for leaving is a largely emotional one, e.g. national pride etc. Personally I prefer the idea of being part of a European super state - it currently has the largest GDP of any 'country' and would dominate the world. I'd rather be in it than be its neighbour.

[James Doulton]

Of course, the Euro was a disaster for many countries, mainly because the politicians fudged the criteria for nations to join. It was a political decision rather than an economic one - without economic alignment then it is hard to share a currency. If they have learnt the lessons then it might be a one-off, if they haven't then there could be more problems as European integration proceeds. I think it was partly why the UK encouraged the expansion of the EU into Eastern Europe, so we wouldn't be so isolated outside the Euro zone.

[rob saul]

James the uk "made its choice" but that choice was to stay in the common market
VERY few people who voted had any idea they were at the start of a European super state bent on controling everything from their laws and economy to weather they are allowed to eat bend bananas !
I'm voting out,that draws a line in the sand and we live with the consequence
We stay its a slow lingering death for our laws country and identity
Half the people in power are terrified we leave cos if we do we are going to be the first domino to fall that's going to bring the whole lot down
Its only a matter of time anyway,look at the figures for Italy (an they aren't the only ones) for employment,growth and national dept- they make the Greeks looks like an economic super power !
When Italy (and the others) fall its going to be all the countries left in the EU doing an awful lot of Bailing out

[James Doulton]

I think that the "bend of a banana" was only ever a story, not an actual decision.

I agree that the UK population didn't know what it was joining but that doesn't mean that we can turn back the clock.

I don't want to see the EU disintegrate into a rabble of right-wing nationalistic countries because I fear that the 21st century could become a repeat of the 20th century. If we want to honour our dead of two world wars then we need to build a peace that will last and that doesn't involve a megalomaniac dictator. The EU is the answer to that, it is the result of a deliberate effort to create that peace.

[Dave Taylor]

From a young guy that's done his research

Why am I voting to Leave the European Union? | By Matt Miller | 21

This is all my own work. None of it is copy and pasted bla bla. I’ve been following this debate for the last 4 years and it would be criminal for me not to write about it before the referendum. I’m not particularly out to influence the way you vote on June 23rd but it may show you a side of the EU no Remain campaigner likes to talk about. It will also give you some scope to realise that you need to research these things yourself instead of listening to waffling politicians.

With any subject in life I decide to do my own research so I’m not the mouth piece for any particular political personality. However I do watch and listen to all politicians when they are being interviewed and if they can’t answer a straight question there’s a high chance they’re wrong or they don’t know the answer. Mostly wrong… and scripted… and overpaid.

The overriding reason I’m voting to leave is because 59% of our laws in the UK are made by the EU. Jeremy Paxman confirmed it [1] and you can’t knock the Paxman. These laws are created and imposed by an unelected body [2] that none of us voted for and none of us can remove. So pretty much if you’re voting to Remain you’re voting for the House of Lords on steroids. How do we live in a democracy if the majority of our laws are created by people we did not elect? You may say yes but they are ‘appointed’ by our elected government WELL SO ARE THE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE OF LORDS BUT I BET YOU DON’T LIKE THEM DO YA!

Instead of writing a gigantic piece about how much I despise the European Union instead I’m going to tackle the ‘Remain’ arguments one by one with nothing more than common sense and my own research. I’m also going to write some questions right at the end for you, mostly for the undecided voters to mull over. If you want to take me out on one of the subjects please feel free to do so in the comments section. I won't be all hostile, it's just debate! If you think this is helpful please share it round to help somebody else out.

‘IF YOU WANNA LEAVE THE EU YOU’RE A FAR RIGHT WING NUT CASE’ 
Yes there may be a far right wing nut case called Paul wearing a Lonsdale vest standing outside Asda with a Carlsberg in his hand and a large Union Jack tattooed on his bald forehead, shouting about how much he HATES immigrants… but that shouldn’t put you off voting to leave.

The left wing case to leave the EU is even stronger than the right wing case. If you see yourself as left wing and you’re voting to remain - What’s left wing about surrendering democracy? What’s left wing about endorsing a capitalist club? What’s left wing about watching the EU overrule nation state votes? Greece, Netherlands, Ireland and Denmark have all had democratic votes OVERTURNED by the EU. What’s left wing about endorsing a project that is on the road to creating an EU army?

What’s left wing about TTIP? [3] This is the ‘trade deal’ being negotiated in secret between the EU and the USA. This deal hands power to the corporates, the big banks and the big businesses. This deal will allow US companies to sue the British government if they enforce a law that hinders their profits. The Conservatives MAY attempt to push this through but the EU WILL 100% push this through. The only difference is we can vote the Conservatives OUT at a general election whereas we CANNOT vote the EU out after this referendum.

I also don’t think you should base your vote on who’s voting for what anyway. For example Tony Blair, Investment banks Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, Dodgy Dave, George Osborne and all these other corrupt nut jobs all want us to Remain does that mean I should vote to Leave?

‘THE EU IS NOT GUNNA HAVE AN ARMY’
‘The EU should have its own army to convey its threat to Russia’. – Jean Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission. This is the guy at the top of the EU. [4]

‘WE NEED TO TRADE WITH THE EU THOUGH… WE MUSN’T LEAVE IT’
We will continue to trade with the EU when we leave. We have a £64BN trade deficit with the EU that means that they need our market more than we need theirs. Do you think the Germans will stop selling us their cars? French will stop the cheese and wine? Remain campaigners go on about the single market like a broken record. They did the same back in 1973.

In 1973 the UK voted to join a Common Market. We were entering a trade deal ONLY. The EU now has an anthem, a flag, a failing currency, and its own courts, makes 59% of our laws, controls our industry and is failing to deal with crisis after crisis.

They say if we leave the single market all trade would cease and the next thing that hits us will be a plague of locusts and we’ll all end up living in caves. To be quite honest if you told me I’d be living on grass and water for a year after we leave the EU I’d still vote to Leave. You can’t buy democracy.

‘BUT THERE WILL BE TARIFFS IF WE LEAVE’
Even if we were to get tariffs we’d still be better off. We’re at a £8.5BN net loss with the EU and the World Trade Organisation said we’d have to cope with £5.6BN of tariffs if we left. That means even if our government paid for all the tariffs we’d still be £2.9BN better off! They won’t impose tariffs though because if they impose tariffs on us… we impose tariffs on them. It works both ways. The fact that they have a £64BN trade deficit with us means that they will be losing out on the tariff war… not us! There will be a deal.

If you want to talk about tariffs let’s talk about the fact that the EU is basically a customs union. It imposes tariffs on the rest of the world kicking the poor, including Africa in the teeth. Many African countries have trouble selling to the EU because of this gigantic tariff barrier. That’s nice isn’t it? [5]

Professor Patrick Minford has also outlined the fact that outside the EU we would face WORLD PRICES outside this gigantic tariff wall that keeps people out, and keeps us in. [6] I trust him more than these gigantic economic bodies because he’s not getting paid by the EU, whereas they are. I’ll come onto that later though.

The EU has also destroyed our fishing industry.

‘NOBODY OWNS THE FISH IN THE SEA THOUGH DO THEY’
It’s not about owning the fish it’s about the jobs that have been lost. [7] When we joined the EU the other countries in the EU lobbied for our fishing waters. This has led to the destruction of our fishing industry. Instead of large scale fishing we now buy fish from Spain that were IN OUR WATER. So the Spanish boats from Spain go fishing in our waters, take the fish back to Spain, they then sell our fish back to us. Whaaaat a mess.

‘BUT THE TRADE DEAL WE DO WITH THE EU WILL TAKE 10 YEARS TO MAKE’
We’ve been freely trading with every EU country ever since 1973. Once we Leave, all regulation and laws will still be in place in this country for us to continue trading freely with them. All of our businesses are following the regulations and laws needed to trade with the EU. Why will it take that long to create a trade deal we already had? ‘Happy to continue?... Yep’ - Will be the conversation in my opinion.

FACT: Switzerland is not in the EU, it’s still in Europe. It has its own tailored EU trade deal. Has free trade deals with the EU, China, Japan and many more. Exports 5 times more to the EU than the UK does. Adopts 0% of EU rules. Has the highest wages in Europe. 2nd Richest country in the world by nominal GDP per head. Ranks first in the world in the Global innovation index. Unemployment is 3.5%. They’re NOT IN THE EU. Sounds good doesn’t it?

‘WE GET SO MUCH FUNDING FROM THE EU THOUGH WHAT ABOUT SCIENCE AND ART FUNDING’ 
This is the argument that gets me the most. There is no such thing as EU money. It is OUR money. You may walk around and see fancy buildings with signs that say ‘THIS BUILDING WAS BUILT BY THE EU’ and we think to ourselves wow thanks European Union you’re so fantastic. Don’t fall for it. All of these funds in the form of the Common Agricultural Policy, Science Funding, Art Funding is just OUR money being sent back to us.

Now I’m going to get down to figures to show you! These are from the BBC [8] so don’t you try say I’m telling lies! Our gross contribution to the EU is £361 Million per week. We pay the EU £17.8 Billion a year GROSS. Subtract the rebate we pay £12.5 Billion a year. Deduct public sector receipts we are at a LOSS of £8.5 Billion a year. The rebate is the part where these fancy funds come in. So we’d still be able to fund these art buildings, science research and so on, at the same level as we would now, and more if we wanted to.

We’d have £8.5 Billion extra to spend. In other words, if you gave me £17.8 Billion and I gave you £9.3 Billion back and told you how to spend it you’d be pretty annoyed wouldn’t you?

But where is the £8.5 Billion loss of money going to?

Maybe it’s used to pay the people that work there? 50,000 people work for the EU. 10,000 of these people are paid more than our Prime Minister. So that means 10,000 people are paid a minimum of £143,000 a year. That’s a total minimum yearly wage bill of £1.43BN for 1/5 of employees. The worst thing about this is that a lot of these people are failed domestic politicians. So they’re rejected in their own country at the polling booth and they jump straight onto the EU gravy train. Easy money isn’t it? No wonder the majority of politicians love the EU so much. Don’t believe me? Type into google the words ‘EU gravy train’ and you’ll find out about the perks they get… and you’re paying for it! You may come across Neil Kinnock on your travels. This is former Labour party leader that was opposed to the EU, and then was offered a job BY the EU, now loves the EU. I won’t go into how much he got paid for it and how big his pension is. It’ll blow your mind. Follow the money and you will find the answers.

‘WE SHOULD STAY IN THE EU TO REFORM IT’ 
Dodgy Dave went to the EU for a renegotiation. He came back with a deal on migrant benefits that isn’t even legally binding and can be ripped up by the EU whenever. There was no reform then. If the EU won’t reform when one of its biggest contributors threatens to LEAVE then what makes you think it will reform when we vote to REMAIN? You’re mad. Voting to Remain says to the EU ‘Yes we like how it is carry on’. Voting to Remain is accepting that the renegotiation Dodgy Dave got was good enough. Besides, haven’t we been trying to reform the EU for the last 40 years? Did it work? Nope.

‘CONTROLLING OUR BORDER’S WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION IS RACIST AND DISCRIMINATING’
Before I start to write about immigration you first need to understand that I am not against any colour, language, nationality or race. This is purely objective and if you let your emotions take over with this subject you’re just being stupid. Uncontrolled immigration is at the bottom of my list of reasons to leave anyway but it mustn’t be brushed under the carpet.

Every single country in the world, apart from EU internal migration, controls their borders. We even have control of our non-EU migration. It’s not a new idea. Borders are simply a form of population control so do not get offended about it. Are you offended by China’s One Child policy? That’s a form of population control. If you applied to live in Australia and they turned you down would you get offended? Would you feel discriminated against? Would you call them racist? Most countries have a system where if you have a skill and in most cases do not have a criminal record and you are not a threat to that country then you are accepted. You are bringing something of great value. Sound ok doesn’t it?

The difference with EU internal migration is that it is uncontrolled which means the low skilled labour market in this country are having their wages suppressed because the majority of workers coming from abroad will take the lowest wage. Even the Bank of England says so. They report that a 10 percentage point rise in the proportion of immigrants would reduce the average pay received in semi and unskilled service sector roles by 1.9%. [9] But why?

The minimum wage in Bulgaria for example is the equivalent to £142 per month. The UK minimum wage is £1050.50 per month. This means that Bulgarians have the opportunity to come to the UK no questions asked and receive a wage over 7 times the minimum wage in their country. To put this into perspective it’s like earning £12,606 per year in the United Kingdom, but having the opportunity to freely go to another country to earn £92,023 as a minimum yearly wage doing the same job. I’m not saying ‘EVRY IMGRUNT COMES HUR N TAYKE R JORBS BLOODY MIGRUNTS’ (Lonsdale Vest Paul outside Asda) but this is just primary school economics! If I was living in a low paid EU country on minimum wage I’d be in the UK in a shot! I’m not saying everybody will come here it’s just a seriously unsustainable flow. Many countries in the EU have a wage far lower than ours. Our minimum wage is a pull factor. More workers in our market means less demand which means less competitiveness for the job market meaning lower wages. It’s so simple! Even the Chairman of the Britain Stronger in Europe group said wages would rise outside the EU. [10]

‘BUT WE CONTROL OUR BORDERS TOO, WE CAN STOP CRIMINALS’ 
It is so difficult to stop criminals and unknown terrorists from coming to this country with freedom of movement. Before you jump down my throat yes I know we have plenty and plenty of home grown criminals and home grown terrorists, but why should we let others like them have the opportunity to come here? Everybody with an EU passport can come to this country if they wish under freedom of movement. The only way we can stop criminals is if they pose an immediate threat to this country which is very difficult to judge without the help of the secret service. On a side note if a ‘Remain’ campaigner says we CAN control our borders they mean we are exempt from the Schengen zone. The Schengen zone is the area on mainland Europe where you can walk from country to country without showing your passport. To get into the UK you need to show an EU passport… which 500 million people have… The politicians that say we are control our borders because we’re exempt from the Schengen zone are wilfully lying to the public.

‘BUT BUT BUT THERE’S PLENTY OF SPACE’
We currently have net migration at 330,000 per year. Half of this is coming from outside the EU from the other 168 countries in the world but the other half is coming from the 28 EU member states. At this rate in 10 years’ time we will have 3.3 million extra people living in the UK just from immigration. My question is, is that sustainable for housing, public services, the NHS, how many jobs are there in the UK for these people? Do you just want the whole world to live here or should we instead help them in their own country and talk about this sensibly? Why should we continue to build houses and services for the rest of the world to live here? Where is your limit? Shall we start building on the greenbelt? Or should we not talk about it? We have to build a house every 4 minutes 24 hours a day to cope with the current levels of immigration. [11] Where do you draw the line?

My main reason for being so opposed to mass migration is because you’re draining other countries populations of their workforce by allowing them a higher wage in another country to further the growth of the western world. Pretty selfish isn’t it? If you don’t believe me watch the well thought out and viral video [12] on how mass migration is making the world poorer. It’s a pretty rosy view you lot have on ‘borders being artificial lines on a map’ and ‘it’s our world too now let me come into your country’ but you need to just think about what you’re saying.

Now I’m not saying the current immigration figures will decrease if we leave the EU but the point is it will be solely down to our elected government, not in the hands of an unelected foreign power. We have the power to chuck that government out. The Leave campaign have endorsed the Australian points based immigration system so we can chose skilled workers, and ones without criminal records. Sounds good?

‘THE AUSTRALIANS HAVE MORE IMMIGRATION THAT WE DO’. 
Yes but they CHOOSE to have this. That’s the difference! Their democratically elected government have been elected to DO THIS. They have control.

‘BUT THE NHS IS BEING HELD UP BY THE IMMIGRANTS’. 
I agree with you. Not just in the NHS but in various other sectors immigration has been so beneficial to this country and it still will be under a controlled immigration system. All the workers that the country needs for example Doctors, Nurses, IT Technicians, will all be able to come, if there is a gap to fill in our market that we cannot fill ourselves. Isn’t that common sense?

‘BUT IF WE LEAVE THE EU EVERY EU NATIONAL LIVING IN THE UK WILL GET DEPORTED AND EVERY UK NATIONAL LIVING IN EUROPE WILL GET DEPORTED BACK TO THE UK’
Under the Vienna Convention, the Luxembourg compromise, everyone can stay where they are, provided they are there legally. It’s international law! “The termination of a treaty does not affect any right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination.” End of! [13]

‘BUT I WANNA GO BACKPACKING ROUND EUROPE NEXT YEAR’ 
There is no reason why we will not have access to travel to Europe if we vote to Leave. Did people not go on holiday to Europe before the EU was created?

‘EVERY SINGLE INDEPENDENT ECONOMIC BODY IS SAYING WE MUST STAY THOUGH COME ON’
Independent? Ahhh independent. Here’s a list of these organisations you’ll see floating around the news and the media and how much EU funding they’ve received. 
International Monetary Fund (IMF) – €168,138 
OECD – €30,523,562
CBI – €1,350,737
NFU – €133,842
IFS – €7,400,974
PwC – €16,304,778
LSE – €18,333,273
Standard & Poor’s – €745,189 
TUC – €763,473

The majority of these organisations including a tonne of politicians also said we should join the Euro when we had that debate in the early 2000’s. Look where that would have gotten us… If somebody is paying you, I think bias comes into it… A lot. [14]

‘BUT I DON’T WANNA BE LEFT WITH THE TORIES THAT’S WHY I’M VOTING REMAIN’
This is an argument used by many Labour Party and Green Party voters which does not stand up one bit. Jeremy Corbyn, the biggest anti-EU voice in the UK just behind Nigel Farage, is also using this argument to scare people.

On this note I’d just like to say I had massive respect for Corbyn… his integrity was untouched until he became party leader. He’s been whipped by his now Europhile party the poor bloke! He was in every anti-EU lobby for his whole life. He’s changed his mind on the EU? No chance. He knows the EU works for banks and big businesses he’s not stupid.

Anyway…

The idea that if we vote to Leave the Tories will run round like mini Hitler’s destroying workers’ rights and scrapping maternity pay is fantasy for these reasons:

1. Once we leave the EU we trigger article 50 which is basically the process of leaving the EU. This means every single law stays in place for a maximum of 2 years. 
2. Half of the Conservative party are voting to Remain so why are they not ALL frothing at the mouth wanting to vote to leave if they want to scrap all your rights? 
3. The Conservatives have a tiny majority in the House of Commons. This means that they have trouble pushing laws through! It’s known as a Zombie Parliament. They couldn’t even push a law through the Commons to turn all schools into academies what makes you think Shaniqua is going to get her maternity pay scrapped? 
4. We can elect a new government every 5 years. We can’t have a referendum on the EU every 5 years. No chance. You could have Mr Corbyn in power in 2020 with the EU overpowering his government. Do you want that? On that note many of Corbyn’s policies are illegal under EU law which is pretty funny.

‘THE EU KEEPS OUR BEACHES CLEAN’
This one does make me laugh. Yes they may have created a policy to keep our beaches clean but can’t we sort that out ourselves or do we need an unelected foreign dictator to keep us in check? There are 168 countries in the world that are not in the EU. Their beaches must be so filthy. Do clean beaches only exist in EU countries?

‘WE SHOULD BE THANKFUL FOR THE EU FOR EQUAL PAY, MATERNITY PAY, AND HOLIDAY PAY’ 
This follows on from the one about the Conservatives scrapping all of our rights. These rights have been enshrined in UK law for years before the EU. Many of these laws have been in place when Conservative governments came and went and they didn’t scrap them then?!

1. The equal pay act was in 1970 and still there’s no equal pay. I thought you said the EU protected you?
2. Social responsibility for women’s health during childbearing was first recognised through the 1911 National Insurance Act, when Maternity pay started. The EU only guarantees 4 months maternity pay whereas the UK grants 12.
3. The Holiday Pay Act was in 1938. UK workers have the right to 5.6 weeks of holiday, the EU only provides for 4 weeks of holiday. 
4. The EU has no minimum wage law and only 18/28 EU nations have a minimum wage. The UK has one of the highest minimum wages in the world. 
Does the EU protect you from zero-hour contracts? What about agencies? Nope. Sounds great for protecting your rights.

MY QUESTIONS FOR THE UNDECIDED VOTERS 
How do you feel about an EU army being built?
Do you not care that the entire European Union Commission who impose laws upon us are unelected and we cannot remove them? Do you like how we have no power as people? 
Do you like democracy?
Do you not care that 10,000 people the EU employs, 1/5 of their employees, are paid more than our Prime Minister? 
How do you intend to plan for our NHS, school places and housing if we have uncontrolled immigration? Or should we just start building on the greenbelt? 
Do you see £361 million per week, our gross contribution to the EU as good value for money?
How do you feel about the EU imposing tariffs on the rest of the world including the poor in Africa?

I really do hope we Leave the EU on the 23rd June because it’s just a real mess that I don’t want to be in for all of the above reasons. If we vote to Remain then that’s how it goes!

The leave option suits me best. We’ll still go on trading, cooperating and talking to these countries but we will be able to hold politicians accountable and actually have a voice at the polling booth. That’s democracy! Besides who wants unelected overpaid politicians ruling over them? Oh wait the Remain voters do.

Ah one last question… If we weren’t in the EU would you vote to join it?

By Matt Miller | 21

8th June 2016

On a side note it may be an idea for you to watch the newly released ‘Brexit The Movie’. [15] It’s had over a million views in less than a month and tells the story better than me!

SOURCES:
[1] Paxman confirms 59% of our laws are made by the EUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU_SWwDX3O0
[2] Paxman confirms the EU Commission who makes 59% of our laws are unelected with our UK Commissioner sitting NEXT to himhttps://www.facebook.com/leaveeuofficial/videos/961856017245973/
[3] TTIP in a nutshell. It hands power to the corporate powers.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAp6cD5i8O0
[4] The big boss of the EU wants an EU Army https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czcd--zmjUs
[5] James Cleverly outlines how the EU keeps Africa poor.https://www.facebook.com/james.cleverly/photos/a.283578888413553.55...
[6] Professor Patrick Minford, a man who is not being paid by the EU, explains the worst case scenario for our economy if Britain leaves the EU.https://www.facebook.com/ProfPatrickMinford/videos/277036859295167/
[7] A short summary on how the EU has destroyed our fishing industry.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6rb4wWbwE
[8] The BBC outline out contribution to the EU. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216
[9] Uncontrolled immigration depresses wages and you’re stealing their workforces! You’re so selfish! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/Mass-migration-driving-down-wa…
[10] Stuart Rose, Chairman of the Britain Stronger In Europe campaign admits wages will rise. Funny enough we haven’t seen him in the media since! Ha!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNAdVjZ_h1c
[11] We need a house built every 4 minutes, 24 hours a day, to cope with the current levels of immigration. Where do you draw the line?http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/…/what-would-britains-immigra…/
[12] Mass migration hurts the poorest in the world! You are selfish!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE
[13] NOBODY WILL GET DEPORTED IF WE LEAVE THE EU OK.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/eu-facts-what-would-leaving-t…/
[14] They said we should join the Euro. Wrong then, wrong now.https://www.facebook.com/Douglas-Carswell-3584695276…/videos
[15] BREXIT THE MOVIE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0

[Big Vern]

We don't live in a democracy as no such thing exists! - anyone who believes we are a democracy has already been successfully brainwashed. We like most countries have an elected dictatorship. The EU referenndum is a smokescreen, its all about convincing you to make the decision 'they' want and then when you complain replying 'well you all had your vote'. No government of any country could allow a real referendum as that would be admitting to people power.

The brexit campaign is about convincing you to vote leave so its all your fault when you lose out.

As for the migrant crissis, leaving the EU will have exactly NO effect. People want to come and live here because A, its a good place to live (thats why most of us care aobut it) B. we have an overly generous benefit system.

If your really want to 'solve' the migrant problem then the benifit system HAS TO GO! but then if the benefit system goes it may not be such a nice place for us to live in.

"Migration/being in the EU costs us too much and we can't afford it" - really? If all the large corporates that do business here actually paid any tax and all the rich who have hidden the money overseas paid their tax then there'd be plenty to go round. As for the EU rules and regulations - so many are rules that 'our' government wanted and often blamed the EU when they know those rules will be unpopular - (a favourite tool of the last labour government and Boris with his banana's). If we continue to do business with the european single market (of which it is by no means a gaurantee we would be able to) then we would still have to meet the eu rules on many things.

Ordinary people like you and  me will be the ones who lose only the rich and powerful stand to gain from leaving.

Can Brittain stand alone - well we couldn't 102 years ago and sold our soul to the de3vil (USA)

If we leave the 'untided states of europe' then we wiil soon become the 51st state and part of the united states of america something to be really frightened about.

Staying in may not be ideal but it IS the better bof two evils (only just though)

[James Doulton]

There is a lot of distortion and misrepresentation in that piece. The EU makes lots of rules but they are not the rules that matter. The UK government makes all of the important decisions - tax, NHS, who we go to war with.

It is interesting that he quoted Paxman because it was Paxman's own investigation of the EU that changed me into a Remain voter because he showed how the EU Parliament, The Council of Minister, and the Commission actually work. He completely destroyed the 'Undemocratic' argument.

Another interesting point in the article above is the whole environmental issue, as exposed in the 'clean beaches' initiative. There is absolutely no reason why we need the EU to make our beaches clean because we can do it ourselves. But we didn't did we? I can remember the cloudy sea off Portreath in Cornwall, the floating sanitary towels and the high-water mark indicated by condoms and wet wipes. It was like that for years. We could have done it ourselves but we didn't. It reminds me of the Life of Brian "What have the Roman's ever done for us?"

I am fed up with the £350M per week argument. Everyone knows that that is not what we pay, which is £250M per week and that we get back £80M per week in farm subsidies. So the £170M nett works out to be less than the price of a Costa coffee for each person in the country. If that would save the NHS then I'd happily cut out one skinny latte per week.

The EU immigrant population represents about 5% of the population. Most of them are fit, young people, unlike the million+ UK pensioners that have gone to Spain. The problems with getting a doctor's appointment here are not because there are 5% too many patients, it is because there are 50% too many! Why are we short of money for the NHS? Because we chose tax cuts. The immigrant issue is just a smoke screen.

The short-term effect of leaving the EU will be a recession. That will hit young families struggling with mortgages and it will make a bigger hole in our pension funds which will affect us all. When we are free of that EU 'meddling' then there will be no pension protection, so pension funds can just collapse. I hadn't really wanted the freedom to be poor in my old age.

The EU import tariffs do affect third world countries that want to sell into the EU. It protects EU businesses and farmers from cheap imports that would destroy them. But the bigger picture is that we don't want to be buying third world food - we would end up with our farms empty and we would increase starvation elsewhere. If, as a buyer, I am competing with a third-world buyer then I think it is only right that I should have to pay more.

On the subject of democracy, we should not kid ourselves that we live in one. The local council where I live decided to 'improve' the roads in my area. They held consultations where every participant was fervently against it, the halls were over-flowing and people were turned away. They did their plan anyway and they have ruined the area. It did allow them to sell the dual carriageway as development land though. 

[rob saul]

Bendy banana law
EU 2257/94 came into force in 95 then changed to a different EU food standard in 2011 !!!
Dave Taylor best repost I have ever seen on this site !
After the election if we are still in the power of your cookers,toasters an kettles will be cut by EU dictat
One of many of the rules we meekly follow but lets at least make them our rules we follow

[Brian (up north) Morris]

i think what scares me about leaving. is the french will just let the immigrants cross the channel. then god help us. ...

[Brian (up north) Morris]

scary stuff im like steve in/out i just dont know