S3 Winter rebuild plans

[Neville Smith]

Hi Everyone,

I'm after some advice on what to do with my S3 over its winter layup, the car has a 1600 pinto which I'm reliably informed is from a mk2 Mexico, it's quite smokey on start up and after being at idle.....my original thoughts were to rebuild and tune this engine but should I look to put a 2000 pinto in instead.

I would like to strip and rebuild the front suspension and brakes as I think it needs it, any thoughts?

The shocks I have on there are adjustable (not sure what they are) but they are wound right up and its as stiff as anything to the point of shaking the wee wee in my bladder I don't expect luxury far from it but it does seem a bit too stiff. as for the rear what shocks should I fit, the car has leaf springs at present....5 link in the future.

Any advice would be appreciated

Cheers 

Nev

[Dave Price]

Fitting a Zetec 2.0 might be cheaper than a Pinto rebuild and cheaper than buying a decent 2.0 Pinto

[Steve and Matt Pegrum]

I'd definitely recommend the Zetec approach as the knowledge of how use the Ford ECU is now "out there" for both the 104 Pin ECU from a Mondeo and the 60pin one from a Focus. See Locost builders member big_wasa .  I've done this on our S3 and am nearly done with another on an Eagle RV (no ground clearance issues there though!)

It's possible you can keep your existing gearbox but you will need new engine mountings and you will need to consider sump ground clearance as it's quite tall (or get a shallow sump).

Contact me if you want further details

[Neville Smith]

Hi Steve and Matt,

I'd love to get more info on going the zetec route.

[Steve and Matt Pegrum]

Neville I've just PMed you with contact details

The main info can be found on locost builders starting here

[Neville Smith]

Thanks for that, will be iin touch

[James Doulton]

I think that an MX-5 engine and gearbox is a good option but I think it is a little longer than the Pinto and Type 9 gearbox.

The issue that I see with any modern engine is the fuelling. In some cases you can retain the ECU and the fuel injection. If so, then the engine swap is a good option but often people don't or can't keep it. Then you also end up with problems with the ignition, needing an ECU for that. If you fit a set of bike carbs or a brace of Webers then either of those can give you problems with the ignition timing because you can't get a sensible vacuum indication to drive the advance. You might be able to fit a throttle position sensor to provide an indication of load for the ignition advance. If you don't use some form of 'vacuum' advance then you typically get very poor cruising performance and fuel consumption - so it's fine for racing but pretty poor for the road.

In many cases, the best answer is probably to add an after market ECU for the fuel injection, which will cost about £1000 by the time that you have got it set up on a rolling road. But by that point an engine rebuild looks rather more attractive, and more likely to be successful!

[Dave Adams]

folks often put WAY to hard springs in their cars in the misguided belief that it will improve handling.....not true.

S4 rebuild

this is a link to another member on here who started a rebuild on a S4 (almost the same as the S3) he did a lot of the work your looking at.

p.s......i thought all of the 1600 Mexico's were Xflow engines i am not aware of ford using the 1600 pinto for any of its performance cars.

[Dave Adams]

The zetec is not as high as the pinto by about 3"  they do fit onto rwd gearbox's but the starter needs a little work (either fit a CVH starter or find 15mm spacers for the pinto starter) you will also have to cut a chunk of the ally sump off to allow clearance to fit the starters. OR  modify the bell housing to fit the zetec starter in its original position.

2.0 L zetecs are not as cheap to buy as the 1800's as they are perceived as too much lower performance at 115 hp compared to 130 hp. however the engines are essentially the same sharing about 90% of internal components just about only the pistons being different. even the plastic inlet manifold is the same the only difference there is the 1800 has a smaller throttle body than the 2.0 L  and just fitting the 2,0 throttle body gives a useful boost to performance. better yet is to bin the horrid restrictive plastic manifold and fit a better breathing set up. throttle bodies or bike carbs give very good results over stock with no other engine mods needed. the 2.0L often gives 165+ hp on bike carbs but the 1800 is close to 160 as well, there is really not a lot to choose between the engines horse power wise but the 2.0 does give more torque. 

typical 1800 prices for an engine plus engine bay wiring ecu etc are about £150ish the 2.0L engines fetch £250+ the overall gain in hp  for the £100 might be cheap horse power but finding a good 2.0 is a pain whereas an 1800 is a doddle.

[Neville Smith]

Thanks Dave,

Some useful information there, gives me a lot to think about.

I also thought all Mexico's used the crossflow but apparantly the mk2 used a 95bhp pinto and my  S3 has one of these.

I may just get the head sorted on the pinto for next year as a couple of my colleagues suggest it may be the cause of the smokey engine whilst sourcing a suitable zetec and then go for the full body off restoration and go 5 link rear, strengthen the chassis in the transmission tunnel / footwell area and then put the zetec in

[Dave Adams]

The chassis rail under the seat is intended to be bent downwards for propshaft clearance. ....knew of the 2.0 escorts pinto's but not the 1600's

[Steve and Matt Pegrum]

Hi Dave I was surprised about your statement about Zetec vs Pinto height

On the Phaeton we 'invested' in a rather expensive Raceline shallow sump otherwise during the rebuild it was easy to stand on the front of the chassis and bump the sump on the ground! Of course that also depends on how high the engine mountings are not to mention overall ride height though.....

So I just went out and measured my standard height Black top  in the Eagle RV

25" from top of cam belt cover to bottom of standard sump.

(Note this is  a Black Top 2.0 engine and it's possible the Silver Top ones are different due to their different sump)

How does that compare with a Pinto?

[Steve Kerswell]

Just measured my pinto, it's spot on 610mm. From base of sump to top of a very posh rocker box. So that is exactly 24" mind you time you bolt on the downdrafts and filters it will gain a fair bit :-))