what's a sports car?

[Dave Adams]

I would argue that someone who owns a landrover and goes green laneing has a sports car. and someone who has a lotus seven that only gets used for commuting does not!
Untill the 70‘s a sports car did not mean it was “fast“ just generally lighter. since then it usually only refers to fast cars.
Here are some interesting facts and figures;
1.8 TDCI Ford Focus 1375kg 113hp 207ft/lb 0-60 10.8 118 mph max 50mpg
2.0 ohc sierra 1118kg 109 hp 128ft/lb 0-60 9.7 116mph max 25mpg
Xr3i 900kg 94hp 97ft/lb 0-60 9.7 113 mph max 30 mpg
none are true sports cars but most folks would think the xr3 is even though its not the quickest.

[Dave Taylor]

0-60 by appointment, I love driving my RAV4 and it will perform well for an oil burner, but it's not a sports car. The first stock MG to officially do over 100mph in the MG brochures was the MG Maestro and that's not a sports car either.

Diesels are for trucks and vans and Rep cars, unless you have the kind of money Audi and Peugoet throw at there Le Mans cars, and even they are going electric/diesels.

[Big Vern]

Some one whos green laning would probably consider that mud plugging and I would doubt anyone would consider a Landriver to be a sports car.....

Since the '30's a light nimble car was considered sporty and thus a sports car - refer to reviews and road tests of the day. MG considered their cars sporty back then as did Morgan. Fast does not neccesarily constitute sporty its the whole package, the way it handles and most importantly how you feel in the car.

A Sierra cosworth engine in a Dutton Sierra would make it fast but it'd hardly be a sports car but a 1300GT xflo in a Phaeton would feel sporty even though its top speed wasn't much to write home about.

My daily driver the MX5 is refered to across the globe as a sports car but it's not quick, my bosses Audi RS4 is quick but you'd hardly call it a sports car.

XR2's and XR3i's GTi's etc are NOT sports cars they're hot hatches - something totally different. If you like them then their great but there not my cup of Tea. I prefer a car that handles well round the twisty bits to a no brainer car that only goes fast in a straight line. No skill in that anyone can go fast in a straight line.

[Dave Adams]

there you have it Vern it don't have to be quick to be a sports car therefore a diesel is just as valid an engine choice as any other....

[Big Vern]

No Dave, you don't get it. Its the way the engine delivers its power not how much. For a sports car the diesel engine delivers its power all wrong. Its all out at 4000 revs and a sports car is just getting going there.

Jeremy Clarkson driving the diesel jag round the nurbergring is a case in point - yes its quick but its not engaging to drive and just as you get going its time to change to another gear. The diesel in the jag could tow mount everest up the side of a mountain a sports car is something a bit more highly strung. You have to wring its neck and it urges you to do that. Like I said its how it makes you feel blasting down country lanes pinpoint precision handling positive braking crisp turn in, a feeling you're connected to the road and an engine that screems happily away right up to the redline/limiter. Its a sensation and you just don't get that with a diesel. The many OEM clients who have come to us over the years asking us to make their dull product into something like I've described above should tell you what it is people want from a sports car.

I accept that you won't want to believ this. If you've set your heart on putting a diesel in then go ahead, its your car and you're entitled to do whatever you want with it but I'm sure you'll regret it.

Poignantly I'm watching a re-run on Dave of the top gear episode of 50 years of the E type, not particulrly fast or reliable, but good handling and braking and an icon of the sports car - could'nt imagine that we'd even remember it if it'd been fitted with a diesel.

Diesel Sierra - yes     Diesel Phaeton - fail

[Dave Price]

It is simply a matter of personal preference.  If everybody wanted the same type of "sports cars" they would all be the same.  I have driven a number of cars classed as sports cars - Honda S2000, Porsche 911, MX5 and a few others.  But one car that was the fum was a 3 litre Capri, the car was about 15 years old at the time.  Yes, it was nippy, yes it was rear wheel drive, yes it sounded great.  Not really a sports car but a fun car.  I my view it is the fun element that matters and the smile factor.  T

Some people want cars that corner great, others don't.  I believe the original Cobra did not corner well but that is a "sports car". 

 

what about muscle cars?   fast in a straight line, rubbish round corners.  Would still be fun to drive.

[Big Vern]

I agree that in he final analysis its what fun you derive from it - not sure that fast in a straight line and rubbish round corners is fun for more than about 5 minutes:-))) and yes my crapi was a laugh in the snow right up until you wanted to get anywhere in it.

Through out my 'driving' life my mk1 MX5 has been by far the most fun and most engaging car to drive and to drive well. I have a GTM libra now with a 160hp VVC engine and the MX5 knocks spots off it in terms of fun to drive and I still find myself taking the MX% as much as the GTM. GTM was a hoot to drive to stoneleigh though but I still think I'd have enjoyed the journey more in the MX5.

 

[Dave Taylor]

BV, you hit the nail on the head, each to there own. Your description is 100% Sports Car. When I watch back our Video's if truth was known speed are less than 60MPH on the twisty bits, yet it's how the car handles those twisty bits that makes me smile so much, now that's a Sports car.

[Mark Bagnall]

I agree, we must all have different ideas of what makes a sports car.  I believe the original sports car name came from competition use, but after looking through the current RACMSA blue book a current sports/competition car has to be pretty specialised, not a "normal" road car.

My feeling is a sports car must require involvement and concentration when driving.  Thinking about past cars I've owned, "good" handling isn't necessarily important.  One of my most memorable drives was when I managed to run an old 911 as a daily driver.  On my first drive I set off on a work trip into mid Wales with all the stories of leaving the road backwards through hedges in my head.  But I was determined to enjoy the drive and not crawl along like a vicar's Morris 1000.  I arrived so excited that they must have thought I was on something!

I suppose this fits well with having a B+ Malaga awaiting sorting in the garage.  I want to improve the handling and engine but I know I'll enjoy driving it and feeling I make a difference.  Most modern cars will get along quite happily at any speed you care without any real skill and involvement from the driver.

[Dave Adams]

I just wanted to provoke debate, i have driven diesel cars that claimed to be sports models (some BMW's for one) and they weren't slow by whichever way you judge them and they weren't noticeably heavier than the petrol equivalents. it is never about the power plant but the way its used. the austin seven ulsters were sports cars ...not quick or particularly fine handling but sports cars none the less. nobel experimented with a steam engine in their sports cars, still a sports car.

I never intend to take my car on a circuit, and dont see the point in doing so.... so is my phaeton a sports car? i would contend yes because of the use its put to. i have some friends who play sunday league one of them is a Barrel (plays in goal) are they not sportsmen even though they play non professionally, and never will? does the same argument not apply to cars?

My favourite car (that i built) had a 37hp engine and would struggle to get above 75mph, but was a blast to drive. so much so it did 18000 miles in one year. definitely a sports car. no one would suggest that a mountaineer isn't a sports man, so why cannot a landrover be a sports car? some of our members build phaeton trials cars.... over muddy hills and ditches, most definitely sports cars.

tonight i have been offered two rover V8's plus one gearbox......tempting..... (free because he is in process of a divorce and his ex has said they go by end of month or they are scrap...)

[Dave Taylor]

Dave you to are right, but you say your not going to track your car then with all the power, torque, reactions, when are you going to use it. The men in blue will try to take your photo, especially where you live (6 points in a month thanks to Humberside Police). Like I said in my previous post, we tour the Lakes, North Wales etc looking for country lane we can open up on, yet it's rare we will go faster than 60. Even on the motorway's we tend to be travelling at 60 -70 inside lane with the trucks.

With my Rav4 a don't think it knows anything under 80, the diesel is long legged for pounding the motorway's. I'm not saying don't look at alternative froms of power, westfield had their Hybrid on show at Stoneleigh, maybe that's another way to go, but not in a Dutton. It's all about the driving experience in which ever form floats your boat.

[Dave Adams]

Dave the way you talk about your car use sounds like mine apart from the fact i have always planned my car as a GT not a track car. i remember similar arguments over the merrits of the pinto over the Xflows.

[Big Vern]

" i have always planned my car as a GT not a track car"

A dutton could hardly be considered a GT car. Your phaeton is a sports car - go up to someone in the street any one and ask them if the think its a sports car.

A GT car is something else altogeher. I wouldn't have considered your car as it stands as a track day car though I've no doubt it would compare well on the track with other phaetons.

I suppose you could consider my GTM just about qualifies as a GT car and many get used on track days. Mine is for everyday road use and for the most part it does that surprisingly well for a kit car.

As to how a Landy could ever be considered a sports car is beyond me and if you stopped people in the street and asked I doubt they'd thinks of a landrover as a sports car. (stopping and asking people in the street is the std way for manufacturers marketing people to gauge public opinion and is used by OEM's to gain feed back - remember when Lotus were trying to trademark the shape of their cars by sendind people faxes of silohette shapes of their cars and asking you to fax back telling them what car you thought it was)