DuttonOwners

Dutton Kit Cars and their owners

Out with the Essex V6, Duratec V6 is the future

The Jag S Type 'box arrived today.  It must be half the weight of the Essex V6 4 speed, I could lift the Jag 'box with one hand (just about).  It is a lot more compact than the Ford Essex 'box.  Also it is 5 speed (hopefully if it works).  Until this arrived I was still unsure which way to jump, stay will the Essex or go Jag AJ V6 (Duratec).  This 'box is so compact and light, it has to be the future.  I know this will be a challenge as I know nothing about engine management, but it is time I moved to the 21st century.  Now just need to check out the 'box fully, currently can't find reverse (it has no lever with it), then find and engine.  I know this is complete madness and you don't need that much power in a Phaeton, but it would be good cheap fun.

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Comment by Dave Price on February 1, 2013 at 22:31

The jag engine arrived today.  Anybody what any Essex parts, I various new and used

Comment by John Allen on January 27, 2013 at 8:58
Hi dave. R u intending to sell any of the Essex bits?
Comment by James Doulton on January 20, 2013 at 23:23

That is brilliant news, a Ford Jag powered Dutton! I think that a lot of the fun of the cars is in modifying them, not just driving them. Don't forget a bigger fuel tank though!

What rear axle have you got and what are your plans for it?

Comment by Dave Price on January 20, 2013 at 20:20

Thanks for all the comments and notes, all of which I respect.  However I have now done something that is either going to be stupid or great.  I have now bought a S Type Jag 3.0 V6 engine.  For the grand some of approx £210 I now have a Jag 5 speed 'box and a 24V 3.0 V6 engine.  If this turns out to be a daft idea, I will just have to break the engine and sell the parts seperately, that should yield a sum greater than I have paid.   Basically I have only done it as about 10 years ago I had a daft idea to build a 200 bhp sports car.  This is the chance to do that on the cheap.  Before anybody says it I know you not need big bhp to have fun (I have had fun in a 50 bhp car).  It is just some foolish mid life crisis and I know I am acting against sound advice.  It might be a daft idea, but it has given be fresh energy to get stuck into the project.

Comment by James Doulton on January 19, 2013 at 20:11

I'm not sure that I would class a 2.2 as being small! It also only revs a little higher than a 3.0V6 Vauxhall (6800 instead of 6500). It produces nearly the same power (200 vs 209 bhp) but the 3.0 produces more torque and it is much lower down. So I'm not sure there is a great deal of difference - if you were offering, I'd have either!

With the Vauxhall you could get a pretty good gearing if you found a Ford 'Rocket' gearbox and had a Capri 3.08 diff. That'd give you a first gear that went to about 56mph and you'd just about manage to stop the wheels from spinning pointlessly. This would give a 0-60 time of about 4.5 seconds and a standing 1/4 mile in 13.5 seconds with a terminal of 107mph. That is fast enough, surely.

I don't think that I'd want a turbo because of the lag - the boost coming in could unsettle the car if you were in a corner.

There must be lots of old Omegas out there whose owners are fed up with the road tax. Or maybe 2.6litre Rover V6's from old 75's. Or the 3.0 Duratec which revs to nearly 7000rpm. I think that the Duratec would make the fastest car by a small margin but I don't think it would make any difference on the road, only on a drag strip.

I think we should encourage Dave Price because I would like to see the car when it is finished. It'll be a monster! In the meantime I will stick to a simple car and dream of V6's.

Comment by James Doulton on January 19, 2013 at 9:33

I got hold of an Autocar road test for a Mk1 RS2000, which did 0-60 in 9.0 seconds. Working from their figures in a big Excel spreadsheet, I was able to get my theoretical calculations to align with their measurements. I weighed my Melos and I think that with 2 occupants (me and my wife) it will weigh 810 Kgs. So changing my spreadsheet to use those figures I predict a 0-60 time of 7.1 seconds if I had the same gearing. Mine is actually lower geared so it might be a little sharper but it would need another gearchange (2nd to 3rd) which the RS2000 avoided.

So, I think that you are right, Dave, it'll be a lot of fun even with the 100 bhp or so of a standard engine. I had a lot of fun in my Smart, and that was only 84 bhp.

But these days, when ever you have a nice fun drive, you will probably end up at a set of traffic lights. If there happens to be a hot hatch there too then you will either have to join his procession or burn him off. I don't mind that the local louts can blow me off in their Astra VXR, they are just out for fun. I don't mind losing races (I have two older brothers so I'm used to losing). What I object to is the smug Golf IR32 and Audi TT drivers who know nothing about cars but use their cars as a status symbol.

So the long term aim is to get to a 0-60 time of less than 6.0 seconds. I would guess that 130 bhp would get me there, or maybe just leave the wife at home!

Comment by Pete Clayton on January 19, 2013 at 8:46

I didn't say i'd only come off once Dave, 3 times for me.... Once at 60mph where a car coming the opposite way cut the corner and clipped the handle bars

Comment by Pete Clayton on January 19, 2013 at 8:44

IMO in a little sports car you want something more revvy than a lazy v6, half the fun is keeping it on the boil! That's why i've gone for the 1.6 turbo this time, previously i've had a 6 pot Triumph Phaeton and Pinto'd Melos and I felt they were a bit lazy.

Comment by Dave Adams on January 19, 2013 at 7:34

whilst the bragging rights for a monster engine may be good, the fact is even modest power will produce a lively car, a phaeton will weigh in the region of 650kg +/- 50kg. 100-150 hp will give very good results.

I have driven big power cars 280 hp and up and whilst they were quick they weren't more fun than my car of choice at the time. ( i worked as a mechanic for BMW and Lotus at the time) my car of choice then? it was a Citroen 2CV special with a 602cc engine of about 30 hp, good for 80-85mph but a riot to drive. It was driven almost at its limit everywhere and that's what makes a car fun to drive. The limit in a high power car is a very scary place to be.

Comment by Dave Adams on January 19, 2013 at 7:18

Only once.....? I covered over 100,000+ miles on my bikes and dropping them is just a hazard of biking. at least you admit it, For one mate of mine, i recovered him and his Honda 750 out of a drainage ditch, the bike was a mess with knackered crank cases. the bike was rebuilt by myself for him in my garage over a month. to this day he will not admit dropping his bike despite photographic evidence!

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