Brexit no need to bother

[Steve Kerswell]

Well it seems after last night display both on and off the field, we don't need to consider the referendum. Most of Europe will now want us out ! Send them all home, and let's deal with it. I thought the meaning of sport was to help one another's culture etc . Tear gas should be dyed and anyone found dyed should be punished. Proud to be British, no, not at this moment. FFS.

[Steve Kerswell]

Having worked in Europe over the years, I was there when the wall fell ! I've always been pro European, so I need to be persuaded that it's wrong.

[James Doulton]

We currently have a car industry but it is all foreign owned. It is here because we have a very flexible labour market and weak unions. But it will only remain if we stay in the single market because it is here to supply Europe.

To stay in the single market we would have to negotiate a deal, which Norway and Switzerland have done. I see no reason why our deal would be any different. The deal that they have is better than being OUT of the single market but a lot worse than we currently have - they contribute to the EU but get nothing back, they have to comply with the rules but have no say in them, and they have to allow free movement and immigration of EU citizens.

If we chose to leave the single market and negotiate a trade deal like Canada has, then how long will that take and what deal would we get? If it takes more than 2 years then our car industry (and many others) will have relocated to mainland Europe where plenty of countries would welcome them. The short term prospects are bad.

The only basis that I can see for leaving is a largely emotional one, e.g. national pride etc. Personally I prefer the idea of being part of a European super state - it currently has the largest GDP of any 'country' and would dominate the world. I'd rather be in it than be its neighbour.

[James Doulton]

Of course, the Euro was a disaster for many countries, mainly because the politicians fudged the criteria for nations to join. It was a political decision rather than an economic one - without economic alignment then it is hard to share a currency. If they have learnt the lessons then it might be a one-off, if they haven't then there could be more problems as European integration proceeds. I think it was partly why the UK encouraged the expansion of the EU into Eastern Europe, so we wouldn't be so isolated outside the Euro zone.

[rob saul]

James the uk "made its choice" but that choice was to stay in the common market
VERY few people who voted had any idea they were at the start of a European super state bent on controling everything from their laws and economy to weather they are allowed to eat bend bananas !
I'm voting out,that draws a line in the sand and we live with the consequence
We stay its a slow lingering death for our laws country and identity
Half the people in power are terrified we leave cos if we do we are going to be the first domino to fall that's going to bring the whole lot down
Its only a matter of time anyway,look at the figures for Italy (an they aren't the only ones) for employment,growth and national dept- they make the Greeks looks like an economic super power !
When Italy (and the others) fall its going to be all the countries left in the EU doing an awful lot of Bailing out

[James Doulton]

I think that the "bend of a banana" was only ever a story, not an actual decision.

I agree that the UK population didn't know what it was joining but that doesn't mean that we can turn back the clock.

I don't want to see the EU disintegrate into a rabble of right-wing nationalistic countries because I fear that the 21st century could become a repeat of the 20th century. If we want to honour our dead of two world wars then we need to build a peace that will last and that doesn't involve a megalomaniac dictator. The EU is the answer to that, it is the result of a deliberate effort to create that peace.

[Big Vern]

We don't live in a democracy as no such thing exists! - anyone who believes we are a democracy has already been successfully brainwashed. We like most countries have an elected dictatorship. The EU referenndum is a smokescreen, its all about convincing you to make the decision 'they' want and then when you complain replying 'well you all had your vote'. No government of any country could allow a real referendum as that would be admitting to people power.

The brexit campaign is about convincing you to vote leave so its all your fault when you lose out.

As for the migrant crissis, leaving the EU will have exactly NO effect. People want to come and live here because A, its a good place to live (thats why most of us care aobut it) B. we have an overly generous benefit system.

If your really want to 'solve' the migrant problem then the benifit system HAS TO GO! but then if the benefit system goes it may not be such a nice place for us to live in.

"Migration/being in the EU costs us too much and we can't afford it" - really? If all the large corporates that do business here actually paid any tax and all the rich who have hidden the money overseas paid their tax then there'd be plenty to go round. As for the EU rules and regulations - so many are rules that 'our' government wanted and often blamed the EU when they know those rules will be unpopular - (a favourite tool of the last labour government and Boris with his banana's). If we continue to do business with the european single market (of which it is by no means a gaurantee we would be able to) then we would still have to meet the eu rules on many things.

Ordinary people like you and  me will be the ones who lose only the rich and powerful stand to gain from leaving.

Can Brittain stand alone - well we couldn't 102 years ago and sold our soul to the de3vil (USA)

If we leave the 'untided states of europe' then we wiil soon become the 51st state and part of the united states of america something to be really frightened about.

Staying in may not be ideal but it IS the better bof two evils (only just though)

[James Doulton]

There is a lot of distortion and misrepresentation in that piece. The EU makes lots of rules but they are not the rules that matter. The UK government makes all of the important decisions - tax, NHS, who we go to war with.

It is interesting that he quoted Paxman because it was Paxman's own investigation of the EU that changed me into a Remain voter because he showed how the EU Parliament, The Council of Minister, and the Commission actually work. He completely destroyed the 'Undemocratic' argument.

Another interesting point in the article above is the whole environmental issue, as exposed in the 'clean beaches' initiative. There is absolutely no reason why we need the EU to make our beaches clean because we can do it ourselves. But we didn't did we? I can remember the cloudy sea off Portreath in Cornwall, the floating sanitary towels and the high-water mark indicated by condoms and wet wipes. It was like that for years. We could have done it ourselves but we didn't. It reminds me of the Life of Brian "What have the Roman's ever done for us?"

I am fed up with the £350M per week argument. Everyone knows that that is not what we pay, which is £250M per week and that we get back £80M per week in farm subsidies. So the £170M nett works out to be less than the price of a Costa coffee for each person in the country. If that would save the NHS then I'd happily cut out one skinny latte per week.

The EU immigrant population represents about 5% of the population. Most of them are fit, young people, unlike the million+ UK pensioners that have gone to Spain. The problems with getting a doctor's appointment here are not because there are 5% too many patients, it is because there are 50% too many! Why are we short of money for the NHS? Because we chose tax cuts. The immigrant issue is just a smoke screen.

The short-term effect of leaving the EU will be a recession. That will hit young families struggling with mortgages and it will make a bigger hole in our pension funds which will affect us all. When we are free of that EU 'meddling' then there will be no pension protection, so pension funds can just collapse. I hadn't really wanted the freedom to be poor in my old age.

The EU import tariffs do affect third world countries that want to sell into the EU. It protects EU businesses and farmers from cheap imports that would destroy them. But the bigger picture is that we don't want to be buying third world food - we would end up with our farms empty and we would increase starvation elsewhere. If, as a buyer, I am competing with a third-world buyer then I think it is only right that I should have to pay more.

On the subject of democracy, we should not kid ourselves that we live in one. The local council where I live decided to 'improve' the roads in my area. They held consultations where every participant was fervently against it, the halls were over-flowing and people were turned away. They did their plan anyway and they have ruined the area. It did allow them to sell the dual carriageway as development land though. 

[rob saul]

Bendy banana law
EU 2257/94 came into force in 95 then changed to a different EU food standard in 2011 !!!
Dave Taylor best repost I have ever seen on this site !
After the election if we are still in the power of your cookers,toasters an kettles will be cut by EU dictat
One of many of the rules we meekly follow but lets at least make them our rules we follow

[Brian (up north) Morris]

i think what scares me about leaving. is the french will just let the immigrants cross the channel. then god help us. ...

[Brian (up north) Morris]

scary stuff im like steve in/out i just dont know 

[Brian (up north) Morris]

no their NOT:-)))

[rob saul]

Years ago 2009 ish Eric pickles the labour mp made the statement the "if it wasn't for the polish workers the strawberry's would rot in the fields"
God knows how we managed the last 150 years ?
Just before free migration happened I was working for VW motorsport in the uk and we use to have 2 of the top directors from the VW group come over every week an we often ended up talking about it and what would happen
While we were going to " only" have 6000 polish workers we had free access Germany put restrictions in place
One of the largest farming crops in Germany is white asparagus,the crop nearly failed as the polish workers that had picked it for the last few hundred years (my Polish friend Robert compared it to hop picking in Kent for the polish people) weren't allowed in to pick it anymore
Couple of months later and I was working on the south coast in Bognor Regis and there must of been 6000 polish there alone swamping the market garden trade
5% immigration would be fine if it was across all sectors but it isn't
Vast majority are in the low pay/ skills sector
There has always been a section of the population who aren't academically inclined but still hard working an they could always find work
Not any more !!!
In Norfolk for example the go to places like Bernard Mathews,Watton produce,bowes,Fakenham laundry are swamped with polish/lithuanian/Russian workers
People spout the "cant get the British people to do the jobs"
BULL SHIT there were doing the jobs till about 8 years ago !
My friend got a job at one of the places mentioned above
On his 32 man shift there were 2 English people !
He applied to one of the other places and was told
" sorry we only take foreign contract labour"
If you do get a job you will probably be earning less Than you did in 2008
Funny thing is not all sectors are affected,if it involves hr departments an people in offices they ship them in but certain like the tarmac gangs for example you wont find a polish guy there
The people who the 5% affects the most are the ones that can least afford it and the least able to fight back
If all the polish started taking mp,s jobs things would soon be changed !
Finally despite what you call them many aren't immigrants they are economic migrants and have no intention of staying here and are sending money back home as soon as they arrive